NHL expansion is always a popular topic for fans of the game. While it may not happen at all, or at least not in the immediate future, it’s fun to discuss… especially with other NHL news being slow at this time of year. Posted off a post from Reddit by Metalhead831, it deserves some evaluation to see how it might work.
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THE CLARENCE CAMPBELL CONFERENCE
VEZINA DIVISION
- Arizona Coyotes
- Anaheim Ducks
- LA Kings
- Seattle Kraken
- San Jose Sharks
- Vegas Golden Knights
NORRIS DIVISION
- Chicago Blackhawks
- Colorado Avalanche
- Detroit Red Wings
- Minnesota Wild
- Nashville Predators
- St. Louis Blues
SMYTHE DIVISION
- Calgary Flames
- Dallas Stars
- Edmonton Oilers
- Houston Aeros
- Vancouver Canucks
- Winnipeg Jets
PRINCE OF WALES CONFERENCE
O’BRIEN DIVISION
- Atlanta Thrashers
- Carolina Hurricanes
- Columbus Blue Jackets
- Florida Panthers
- Hartford Whalers
- Tampa Bay Lightning
PATRICK DIVISION
- New Jersey Devils
- New York Islanders
- New York Rangers
- Philadelphia Flyers
- Pittsburgh Penguins
- Washington Capitals
ADAMS DIVISION
- Boston Bruins
- Buffalo Sabres
- Montreal Canadiens
- Ottawa Senators
- Quebec Nordiques
- Toronto Maple Leafs
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NHL Expansion to 36 Teams Creates Great Rivalries
Going down the list of divisions, let’s see what rivalries would be created. There would be two conferences, the Clarence Campbell (formerly the Western Conference) and the Prince of Wales (formerly the Eastern Conference).
12 teams in each conference would make the playoffs, with the top 4 teams in each division making it.
Vezina Division
The three California teams battling it out seems to be a no-brainer. Then, the long awaited desert rivalry of the Arizona Coyotes vs Vegas Golden Knights, which really never developed… could be reinstated. Throw in the Seattle Kraken into the mix and the Vezina Division looks pretty competitive.
Norris Division
There are multiple rivalries in this division. The Chicago Blackhawks facing the Detroit Red Wings AND the St. Louis Blues would make many fans very happy. Colorado Avalanche versus the Minnesota Wild or the Nashville Predators seems very enticing to excite fans of all those teams.
Smythe Division
Top rivalry in this division has to be the Calgary Flames against the Edmonton Oilers. Coming off the playoffs from last season, these two teams do not like each other. The Winnipeg Jets and the Vancouver Canucks will be a fun rivalry that will peak fans’ interest. Then, with the newly added Houston Aeros going up against the Dallas Stars, one good old-fashioned Texas rivalry will be born.
O’Brien Division
The Florida rivalry of the Tampa Bay Lightning up against the Florida Panthers will be the highlight of this division. Another quirky thing would be the newly added Hartford Whalers playing against the Carolina Hurricanes. The Whalers were moved to Carolina in 1997. There’s all kinds of nostalgia involved when/if these two teams ever meet. Adding the Atlanta Thrashers who were moved to Winnipeg in 2011 would create quite a geographical rivalry with Carolina.
Patrick Division
This is basically the current Metro Division without Carolina and Columbus. The competition has and always will be fierce among these teams. Rivalries are already created, so nothing new here.
Adams Division
With just the two Florida teams moving out of this division, it pretty much remains the same as well. Keeping the Toronto Maple Leafs, Boston Bruins, Montreal Canadiens rivalries alive is the attractive part of this division.
Playoffs Being Expanded is Good For the Game
Not only will the NHL be receiving tons of expansion money by admitting four additional teams, the playoffs would become more competitive. Allowing the top four out of six teams in each division would bring more fan interest in the postseason, which transmits into more revenue. WIth Vegas paying $500 million to join the NHL in 2017-18 and Seattle pitching in $650 million to become the 32nd team this past season, the NHL would be rolling in money. And, both the owners and the players benefit from that expansion.
Now, whether four new teams are admitted all at once is still questionable. It seems the best method to use to keep the conferences even and the playoffs less complicated. Some may question the addition of the Atlanta team or the Hartford addition. It seems a forgone conclusion that both Houston and Quebec will be admitted easily. Atlanta has already had two unsuccessful NHL teams who had to move due to lack of fan support. The population of nearly 500,000 not counting the suburbs which would increase the population to about 7 million. The other factor is that Atlanta is the seventh largest U.S. TV market and that is an advantage.
While Hartford possesses a lot of hockey tradition, being so geographically close to New York and Boston could hurt their chances of being in the NHL. Again, Hartford has a great media market and could attract NHL fans.
Final Analysis
The attraction for the NHL to receive expansion revenue is always there. That doesn’t mean it’s always a good idea. The league is desperate to make up for lost revenue during the COVID-19 era. They may instead add two teams and wait a year or two before going to 36 teams. It seems that things have settled down a bit since COVID. The NHL is considering increasing the salary cap and it could go up quite a bit to perhaps even $87 million. To consider expansion, there must be enough NHL-caliber players to fill rosters. That shouldn’t be a problem. Both the league and the players association would cherish more teams. It means more jobs for players and more fans coming to games enriching the already rich owners. TV ratings would also increase, adding more money for everyone to share.
36 teams? Why not?
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Seattle should be in the Smythe for travelling rivalry they will have with Canucks. Detroit shouldn’t be in the west they left for a reason. I doubt Atlanta gets their team back maybe add Kansas to the mix.
No Red Wings in a division out of their time zone!
Swap Hartford and Washington
Kraken and Wild go with Flames, Oilers, Jets, Canucks. Avalanche move out to the div with all the California teams and Stars and Aeros move to division with Blues, Blackhawks
Yep. Not sure why this was so hard to work out. “Let’s put the two furthest south teams with the furthest Canadian teams possible so they have to travel 2500 miles per game while the New York area teams have to sometimes take a TWO Starbucks drive to their furthest opponent, on a bad traffic day.”
The main trouble with expansion, and something that we are seeing right now, is the dilution of competent officials. We barely had enough good refs for 24 teams, then they expanded plus doubled the refs on the ice to two. Now we have nothing close to consistency from game to game.
With that said, someone needs to brush up on their geography as well as hockey history. And as others have pointed out, there are issues with time zones. Would be nice to have teams back in Hartford and Quebec though.
Not mentioned by the author but Quebec and Montreal has a real rivalry, not just in hockey area. So yes, it might be really nice!
I think Seattle should be with Vancouver and I agree we should split canadian teams to be on more than 2 divisions.
The Canadian Teams should be split up more. Sucks having them in only two divisions.
Gary Bettman hates Canadian expansion!
He took criticism for expanding into South USA market but in latter decade proved profitable
Where will all of these players come from? Existing teams are not going to want to lose 4 quality players, and have to replace them with AHL talent. Besides, most of the cities you mentioned failed with NHL teams in the past. They’re not likely to get a second/third chance. Kansas City, Portland, Memphis, Milwaukee, or others would be considered first.
Kansas City Scouts 1976-78. Became the Colorado Rockies ‘78-82. Then the New Jersey Devils
Only one team in Arizona, Betman would want at least tjree
If Hartford makes a comeback, which I doubt, they should be in the Adam’s I think. I also like the naming of the conferences and divisions after NHL greats, like they used to do way back when. Adds a vit of the history of the game and keeps those greats and their teammates alive. One more thing while I’m at it. I think it’s time for the NHL to have a Bobby Orr Trophy for best offensive defenseman. Let the Norris go back to being for the best D-man. A lot of unsung d-man heros in the NHL now. Those defensive stay at home types have no shot at the Norris anymore, it always goes to the high scoring d-man. Not quite right, is it?
Almost 1800 miles separated Dallas and Vancouver. That’s a long distance for a divisional game.
3000 Km
Was any thought put into this? How is Seattle not in the same division as Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton?
Seattle and Minnesota into the Smyth, Arizona into the Norris, Dallas and Houston in the Vezina.
Move Arizona to Houston
The only way the playoffs could mathematically work with 24 teams is to have 5 rounds, with 8 teams getting a first round bye. And that would require seeding 1-12 in each conference. You can’t just say top four teams in each division make it. The math won’t work. And eight teams with a first round bye is a LOT. But I would do it just to have more teams overall and more teams making the playoffs. Because that generates the most interest in the most markets.
The regular season would have to be: 2 games (one home, one away) against the other 5 divisions. 30×2 = 60 games
And then 4 games (2 home, 2 away) against the other 5 teams in your division, for another 20 games. 80 game season. Which you’d have to do because you’re making the playoffs longer.
But there’s no way I’d put teams back in Atlanta or Hartford. I’d go Houston, Kansas City, Quebec City and Milwaukee,
Smythe: Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Seattle, Minnesota
Vezina: Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Jose, Vegas, Arizona, Colorado
Norris: Dallas, Houston, Nashville, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Florida
O’Brien: Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, Columbus, St. Louis, Kansas City
Patrick: NYI, NYR, New Jersey, Washington, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia
Adams: Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec, Boston, Buffalo
Why would you not have Atlanta in the league?
Atlanta has had the highest MLS attendance for six years running, by far. It isn’t even close.
Atlanta had the fourth highest MLB attendance in 2022.
The Falcons are in the top half of NFL attendance.
The Hawks are near the middle of the pack in NBA attendance.
Thus, where is this irrationality of Atlanta coming from? Atlanta lost its teams having to do with certain circumstances that COULD HAVE HAPPENED ANYWHERE. It is not a reflection of the city.
The Flames left because owner Tom Cousins was a real estate developer and during the Jimmy Carter administration, interest rates were increased dramatically. This increase in interest rates about tanked his business. To keep it afloat, he sold off his profitable asset, the Flames, TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, which just so happened to be someone who TOOK THEM TO CALGARY, DESPITE MULTIPLE LOCAL BIDDERS. If he had chosen any other, the Flames would probably still be in Atlanta, and Calgary would have gotten an expansion team later.
The Thrashers left do to some unfortunate circumstances. The Thrashers, originally owned by Ted Turner, was acquired by Time Warner in an acquisition of Turner Sports. This included the Atlanta Hawks of the NBA, the rights to Philips Arena, and the NHL’s Atlanta Thrashers.
Time Warner had the hair brained idea to merge with AOL, having no foresight that dial-up internet wasn’t long standing. A few years later, AOL-Time Warner, the company as it was called, started facing financial hardships as the transition away from dial up internet took place. In order to stabilize the company, they sold their sports franchises, the Hawks, and Thrashers, and the rights to Philips Arena AS A PACKAGE DEAL. It is the package deal that was the root of what led to the Thrashers’ demise. You see, it allowed a group of investors from various cities who WANTED A BASKETBALL TEAM, named ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP, LLC, who acquired the Thrashers as a way of also getting the Hawks. Most had no interest in hockey, and most wanted to sell the Thrashers right after acquisition. There was a lone investor who did want the Thrashers, and in order to prevent the sale, he took the other investors to court. They lost a tremendous amount of money in LITIGATION COSTS, while simultaneously used most of their revenue to acquire Hawks players for exorbitant salaries, namely Joe Johnson. This left little for the Thrashers and is responsible for their continued dismal performance on the ice, having only one playoff year in which they were swept. Litigation costs forced the Thrashers to sell off most of their good players, and shortly after, the court ruled that Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC, could sell the Thrashers.
Atlanta Spirit Group sabotaged any potential buyers keeping the Thrashers in Atlanta. For one, they would not allow any new owner to receive any revenue from concessions or parking, as since Atlanta Spirit Group would still own Philips Arena (THE RESULT OF THE PACKAGE DEAL), Atlanta Spirit Group would get that revenue, not the new Thrashers owners. Secondly, it has been stated multiple times that Atlanta Spirit Group was looking to get the relocation fee from the NHL. They also apparently did not want to have to compete with the Thrashers for fans, and wanted to have Atlanta all to themselves in winter sports with the Hawks. Atlanta Spirit Group also wanted a fee from any potential buyers to USE THEIR ARENA. The loss of revenue coupled with fees to Atlanta Spirit, as well as Atlanta Spirit not taking considerably any strong contenders for sale to keep the team in Atlanta, resulted in people unwilling to take a risk, since this setup would have bankrupted any city’s sports franchise.
The league was also not flexible in 2011. They would not allow the Thrashers to play at the Gwinnett Arena, an arena that holds about 9,000 fans. Years later, they went off this and now are allowing the Coyotes to play in an arena of about 4,000-5,000 fans.
The recession was in full swing during the Thrashers’ departure, so this didn’t exactly help things either.
All this said, it is easy to see that Atlanta’s movements had nothing to do with attendance, and all with ownership. Atlanta never was last in attendance, and outsold the Bruins, Blackhawks, and Penguins some years.
Atlanta is also a huge city that makes some of these other cities that people list as possible expansion sites look like little cities. Atlanta has the third largest urbanized, built-up area in the USA, and fourth largest in the world.
Kansas City? Really? They have less than one third the population of metropolitan Atlanta, and it will become even less than that as Atlanta has robust growth, while Kansas City is kind of stagnant. Atlanta metro has about 6.2 million, while Kansas City has just over 2 million.
Lastly, Atlanta and Kansas City both play in the ECHL, and Atlanta’s attendance is FAR LARGER. Atlanta’s attendance is about sixty percent greater than Kansas City’s in 2023. Plus, Atlanta’s arena is situated in the far northeast corner of the metro, not downtown, and is difficult for two thirds of the metro area population to even get there, given the distance and traffic. By contrast, while Kansas City does not play in a downtown arena, the suburb they play in is far closer to downtown and is far more accessible to most of the metropolitan area population.
So all Minnesota in division away games are 2 time zones away? F that.
For the whalers, thrashers, and nordiques to return, wouldn’t the current franchises that own the rights to those old teams (hurricanes, Jets, avalanche) push back against those teams returning? In the NFL for example, a lot of Houston fans have talked about how they want the Oilers name and colors to replace the name and colors of the Texans. However, the Titans own these things and their ownership has said publicly that they have no interest in giving them back to the new Houston Texans franchise.
Milwaukee needs a team ahead of Atlanta
Honestly it be GREAT if every division had an ORIGINAL 6 team in it!! That would be the best situation for hockey!!
Wouldn’t work- farthest West is Chicago, farthest South New York. Too much travel
No chance Atlanta (who has already had 2 expansion teams come and leave) will get another NHL team.
36 teams? 24 teams will make the playoffs, and the playoffs expands to 5 rounds, Let’s go for it.
The NHL would be crazy to try and put another team in Atlanta!
The more teams , the longer the playoff , the less I care . What a joke . You are inventing rivalries that will never exist . Nobody cares for the desert rivalry as you call it . How can you even cheer for a team that doesn’t even a single player from the area they are playing for ?
Smythe: Sea, Van, Cal, Edm, LV, Minn.
Norris: Det, Winn, Chi, STL, Colo, Nash
Vezina: LA, SJ, Ana, Ariz, Dal, Hou
—-‐——————————————————–
Patrick: Phi, Pit, NYI, NYR, NJ, Wash
Adams: Mon, Que, Tor, Ott, Bos, Buf
O’Brien: Atl, Car, Flor, TB, Colu, Hart
Go to 20 teams making the playoffs. Seed division winners #1, #2 & #3 in order of points against each other. Then seed all remaining teams #4 through #18, in order of points, in each conference. Top 10 seeds, in each conference, make the playoffs. Preliminary round sees a one game playoff between #7 vs #19 & #8 vs #9 in each conference. (Higher seed gets home advantage.) Winners advance to final 8 teams in each conference. Highest seed vs lowest remaining seed. 2nd highest seed vs 2nd lowest remaining seed etc. (Best of seven series the rest of the way.) Eventually each conference champion plays a best of seven for the Stanley Cup in a 5 round Stanley Cup playoffs.
No putting Minn “in division” away games 2 time zones away, screw that.
Yeah put Winnipeg with St Louis milw and Chicago but move Minnesota to the Pacific time zone??
Colorado and Minnesota could be swapped. Probably makes more sense. Got to draw the lines somewhere. Amazing how many states don’t have NHL hockey between Minnesota and the pacific.
Arizona looks to be finished in the dessert. Maybe they could move to Portland? This might be closer to reality:
Smythe: Sea,Van,Cal,Edm,LV,Colo.
Norris: Det,Winn,Chi,STL,Minn,Nash
Vezina: LA,SJ,Ana,Port,Dal,Hou
—-‐——————————————————–
Patrick: Phi,Pit,NYI,NYR,NJ,Wash
Adams: Mon,Que,Tor,Ott,Bos,Buf
O’Brien: Atl,Car,Flor,TB,Colu,Hart
Excuse the typo. Should read #7 vs #10 seed in preliminary round. Also the regular season schedule could see divisional opponents ×4. Plus a home and away against every other team in the league. Adds up to an 80 game regular season. Lose the shootout. Go to only wins (2), losses (0) and ties (1). If a game is tied after 5 minutes of 3 on 3 overtime then the game ends in a tie and 1 point for each team in the standings. No point awarded for a loss in overtime too. The current points system makes it nearly impossible for teams to recover after a huge losing streak. A winning streak gains maximum traction in the standings by eliminating the loser point.
No. Talent already watered down. And why would you give teams to 3 markets that previously couldn’t support a team….and that’s before you admit that Arizona is a terrible market.
could b done, after what we saw during a covid shut down, and teams had to remain in country…no border cross…clearly Canada needs at least 1 more team. Quebec is obvious…..so take this…..you won t c a team in atlanta again, or hartford ….get over it. More obvious in Canada than Quebec is Hamilton. Da. The Houston aeros were legendary and the owner of the Astro a has made no secret about his interest in that. There s 3……..Keep in mind Phoenix, and Arizona r done with that team in terms of $ bail outs…thats a big daa too. so where do they go and find another u.s city for 4…….hmmmm can t c it sorry
Toronto could have 5 NHL teams and all sell out and do much better than any team like Arizona or Florida or California! If only Gary Bettman was smart.
This will never work. Detroit will never move back west, Vancouver and Seattle not in the same division? Quebec also needs a reality check, they’re never getting the NHL back. Sadly the same is the answer for Hartford, too small. Kansas City, Cincinnati, Houston, Atlanta and Milwaukee are much more feasible than Quebec is.